Best home defense firearm for novice shooters

[CalmerThanYou]

Is this really about "Training"?  The key here I would think it to be VERY familiar and practiced with the operation of the firearm choice.  

No one is more familiar with your home than you so you have an advantage to start with.  Training would be great, but unrealistic for the typical novice.

The chances of a intruder being better armed, and having any situational advantage within your home is slim.  Most bad guys\gals are not prepared for resistance.  But you can be with a fairly simple advanced plan.

[fortyofforty]

3 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

This is not just incorrect, this is advocating outright dangerous behavior for someone who’s untrained. 

I think you could use some actual training before you reccomend anything else, because your lack of knowledge on the matter is apparent. The fact that you’re advocating a new shooter attempt to clear their own house clearly tells me you’ve never received any formal instruction on how to do so. 

 

I can guarantee I've given more training than you've taken, and received more than you're family put together, based on your responses here.  Your ignorance is boundless.  The fact that you think only SWAT trained officers should investigate a suspicious noise or dog barking shows you live in your own little fantasyworld.  Enjoy it.

[geeorge]

410 revolver with handgun loads

[AK_Stick]

2 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

I can guarantee I've given more training than you've taken, and received more than you're family put together, based on your responses here.  Your ignorance is boundless.  The fact that you think only SWAT trained officers should investigate a suspicious noise or dog barking shows you live in your own little fantasyworld.  Enjoy it.

 

From just what you’ve said here, it’s clear 

 

A. You haven’t received any actual training. Certainly not more than me, 

B. You teaching other new shooters incorrect stuff, doesn’t qualify as “giving training”

 

 

You don’t have to lie to kick it here. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by AK_Stick

[fortyofforty]

53 minutes ago, AK_Stick said:

 

From just what you’ve said here, it’s clear 

 

A. You haven’t received any actual training. Certainly not more than me, 

B. You teaching other new shooters incorrect stuff, doesn’t qualify as “giving training”

 

 

You don’t have to lie to kick it here. 

From what you've just written, it's clear

1. You aren't as slick an Operator as you think you are

2. You have never used a shotgun in a hostile environment

You don't have to pretend to be an expert to post here, and your opinions must stand and fall on their own merits.  Unfortunately for you, yours fail miserably.  Comically, for sure, and miserably at the same time.  Thanks for trying, though.

[fortyofforty]

Not once has any of the resident Three-Handed Mall Ninja Operators responded to my very real and actual problems with using a shotgun in a home environment.  That speaks volumes.  As I wrote, the opinions expressed here must stand and fall on their own merits.  The readers can judge for themselves.

[stevekozak]

I'm just going to say that while I havevread about people short stroking shotguns, I have never in my life actually seen anyone do it. I've been around a lot of different people shooting pump guns.

 

This  thread continues to amuse me. Operators...

[Troy969]

Call me ignorant, but why in the hell would someone be turning on light switches when clearing a house looking for an intruder? 

[Troy969]

Double tap...no short stroke either. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Troy969

[jame]

1 hour ago, stevekozak said:

I'm just going to say that while I havevread about people short stroking shotguns, I have never in my life actually seen anyone do it. I've been around a lot of different people shooting pump guns.

 

This  thread continues to amuse me. Operators...

 

I'm a very short, stocky guy, and the factory stocks actually don't allow me good purchase on the fore stock with my left if I want to get a good, safe feel for the trigger group on my right side.  The price you pay for having broad shoulders and short arms, I suppose.  

There was a simple $100 solution, however, and the problem is solved.

I've never heard of duck hunters referred to as "Operators", but what ever works, I guess......but don't guys like you refer to guys like me as "Fudds?"  

Edited November 10, 2017 by jame

[fortyofforty]

8 hours ago, stevekozak said:

I'm just going to say that while I havevread about people short stroking shotguns, I have never in my life actually seen anyone do it. I've been around a lot of different people shooting pump guns.

 

This  thread continues to amuse me. Operators...

Yes, it's amazing that the resident Keyboard Commandos continue this thread, offering no facts or logical arguments.  I have seen shooters short stroke pump shotguns, when working under stress.  You'd be amazed the difference in stress-level performance between a duck blind and a tactical scenario.  It seems many here have never even carried a shotgun through a door, yet they continue to spout off.  Insane.  

[fortyofforty]

7 hours ago, Troy969 said:

Call me ignorant, but why in the hell would someone be turning on light switches when clearing a house looking for an intruder? 

Because every noise or bump is not an intruder.  And, once the major areas have been checked, you'll go back and recheck.  Lights truly help out.  You also might have the ability to light up a downstairs room from upstairs, or vice versa.  That would scare the crap out of an intruder, if one was there.  Most shotguns I've seen do not have a foreend light of any kind, so try holding a flashlight at the same time.  Added to that is if you've decided to turn on your outdoor floodlights, you'll need a hand free to do it.  There are plenty of times when parents have responded to the sound of there son or daughter, or a friend, moving about the house.  Hot burglaries are relatively rare in this country, due to the prevalence of firearm ownership.

Obviously, if you've determined for sure there's an intruder inside your house, you'd retreat to a secure room, call the police, and wait the extremely long (in many instances) time for them to respond, hopefully with a rifle or shotgun at the ready.  At that point you are no longer investigating, you are defending.  Nobody has disputed that point.

[AK_Stick]

5 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

Because every noise or bump is not an intruder.  And, once the major areas have been checked, you'll go back and recheck.  Lights truly help out.  You also might have the ability to light up a downstairs room from upstairs, or vice versa.  That would scare the crap out of an intruder, if one was there.  Most shotguns I've seen do not have a foreend light of any kind, so try holding a flashlight at the same time.  Added to that is if you've decided to turn on your outdoor floodlights, you'll need a hand free to do it.  There are plenty of times when parents have responded to the sound of there son or daughter, or a friend, moving about the house.  Hot burglaries are relatively rare in this country, due to the prevalence of firearm ownership.

Obviously, if you've determined for sure there's an intruder inside your house, you'd retreat to a secure room, call the police, and wait the extremely long (in many instances) time for them to respond, hopefully with a rifle or shotgun at the ready.  At that point you are no longer investigating, you are defending.  Nobody has disputed that point.

 

So after all that crying about how they can’t be expected to run a shotgun under stress. And a revolver with target loads is a much better choice for a new shooter. Reading me the riot act over suggesting a new “non gun person” barricade themselves in a room and wait for the cops. 

You turn around and finish off your statement by saying if there’s a burglar they should retreat to a room and barricade themselves inside with a rifle or a shotgun.

 

 

[AK_Stick]

12 hours ago, jame said:

 

I'm a very short, stocky guy, and the factory stocks actually don't allow me good purchase on the fore stock with my left if I want to get a good, safe feel for the trigger group on my right side.  The price you pay for having broad shoulders and short arms, I suppose.  

There was a simple $100 solution, however, and the problem is solved.

I've never heard of duck hunters referred to as "Operators", but what ever works, I guess......but don't guys like you refer to guys like me as "Fudds?"  

 

No, a fudd is a hunter who lobbies for anti-gun measures like the assault rifle ban because they don’t see a need for any non hunting guns. 

 

Youre just a hunter. And one of us. 

[fortyofforty]

46 minutes ago, AK_Stick said:

 

So after all that crying about how they can’t be expected to run a shotgun under stress. And a revolver with target loads is a much better choice for a new shooter. Reading me the riot act over suggesting a new “non gun person” barricade themselves in a room and wait for the cops. 

You turn around and finish off your statement by saying if there’s a burglar they should retreat to a room and barricade themselves inside with a rifle or a shotgun.

 

 

I exposed the idiocy of your blanket statement that the only option for people is to barricade themselves in their bedrooms and wait for SWAT to arrive.  IF THERE IS AN INTRUDER...  Stop.  Go back.  Reread that.  Here is it again, for the window-lickers:  IF THERE IS AN INTRUDER, barricade themselves in a secure room.  Did you miss it?  IF THERE IS AN INTRUDER.  99% of the time, it is not an intruder.  Clear enough?  Probably not.  Go back to your windows.  

Edited November 10, 2017 by fortyofforty

[Troy969]

23 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

I exposed the idiocy of your blanket statement that the only option for people is to barricade themselves in their bedrooms and wait for SWAT to arrive.  IF THERE IS AN INTRUDER...  Stop.  Go back.  Reread that.  Here is it again, for the window-lickers:  IF THERE IS AN INTRUDER, barricade themselves in a secure room.  Did you miss it?  IF THERE IS AN INTRUDER.  99% of the time, it is not an intruder.  Clear enough?  Probably not.  Go back to your windows.  

[Old Buzzard]

Had to check the address bar on my browser, for a minute I thought I got redirected to GT.

[fortyofforty]

And, yet, you keep clicking.  It's about eyeballs.  You just can't turn away.

[Old Buzzard]

9 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

And, yet, you keep clicking.  It's about eyeballs.  You just can't turn away.

True.

[CalmerThanYou]

Totally ******* compelling.

[Eric]

I don't think an AR is a good home defense weapon. Over-penetration of the rounds fired is a serious issue. The concussion and flash of the muzzleblast in a confined space is also going to be an issue. If you have ever fired an AR in a confined space without hearing protection, you know what I mean. If the weapon malfunctions, it takes practice to have the presence of mind to clear it and get it back in the fight. 

I think the best home defense firearm ever made is a 12 gauge pump-action shotgun, preferably with a pistol grip. Just about everyone in this country has grown up watching people rack a pump shotgun in the movies and on TV, even if they have never touched one. It is a simple weapon.

With the right home defense rounds, over-penetration is much less a concern and it is obviously going to be much easier to get a hit with shotgun firing 00 or 0000 shot, than with a single projectile. Add to this the massive stopping power at close range of a 12 gauge round and the psychological factor of the bad guy hearing you rack that mother and he is likely to remember that he needs to be somewhere else just then.

If recoil is an issue, there are dozens of rounds to choose from, including many reduced recoil rounds. There is no reason that someone can't find a round to accommodate him.

12 gauge pumps are cheap, hard-hitting, simple to operate, intimidating and extremely reliable. I really can't think of a better choice. 

Here's my E-Lime-Inator: 

 

[AK_Stick]

 

While I agree with much of what you said, most of the common self defense loads will perform about the same if you miss.

Similarly, you’re looking at about 159-163 DB for a centerfire rifle or shogun, there isn’t a huge difference between an AR and a shotgun. 

[fortyofforty]

I, again, have no problem with a shotgun for static defense.  For moving around a house or other confined space, in order to assess a situation, I don't think the 18 inch barrel of a shotgun is conducive to maneuvering.

[Eric]

19 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

I, again, have no problem with a shotgun for static defense.  For moving around a house or other confined space, in order to assess a situation, I don't think the 18 inch barrel of a shotgun is conducive to maneuvering.

A carbine’s barrel is 16”. I don’t think 2” makes much of a difference and with a pistol grip, the shotgun can stay tucked in tight. 

[Eric]

2 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

 

While I agree with much of what you said, most of the common self defense loads will perform about the same if you miss.

Similarly, you’re looking at about 159-163 DB for a centerfire rifle or shogun, there isn’t a huge difference between an AR and a shotgun. 

I’ve fired both ARs and 12 gauge shotguns inside structures, in the Army and as a civilian. I think that the concussion from firing the AR was substantially more punishing. Also, the muzzle flash from the AR in a dark structure is extremely bright. It is blinding. 

I love ARs and I own them, but I still think they  are poorly suited for use inside a house. I believe a pump gun with 0000 shot is a far better choice. To each his own though.