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Kel Tec sub 2000 40S&W

Dave514

By Dave514
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Dave514 Senior Member

Dave514

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13 hours ago, Swampfox762 said:

That's really Cool!!  I've got a PMR 30 and that thing is an absolute Blast!!!  Hope ya have fun with it!!!  My PMR 30 was about 400 bucks.  What did that one set ya back??  Sorta makes me want my Beretta CX4 back.

Thanks.

I was out the door for just under $400 with tax.

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Dave514 Senior Member

Dave514

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10 hours ago, Maccabeus said:

Very nice!  Give us a range report when you can.

I have the G19 version that I picked up in March.  Still haven't taken it out to shoot. ?

I put 30 rounds through it just to make sure everything was running right. More accurate that I expected. Sights leave a lot to be desired. Even pulling the gun up to your face, rather than lowering your head onto the stock(very little recoil), it's hard to have the peep hole straight up and see the front post. Making the green laser come in even more handy. 

With the collapse feature you can't add a sight to the top of the rail and close it so that is a negative. Bolt does not lock open after the last round. Bolt handle/charging mechanism is not terribly smooth. Butt of the stock is a little uncomfortable because of the design to accept the front sight when collapsed. 

Fit and finish are Kel Tec-esque but everything feels solid with no rattling. Hinging mechanism is tight. Barrel is threaded with nice knurled cap. 

It's a functional little carbine that fits a niche but I would not want to be dropped off in the middle of Afghanistan and have this as my primary weapon. Fun to shoot and would certainly fit the bill for a home defense or trunk gun.

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Dave514 Senior Member

Dave514

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14 minutes ago, BamaBud said:

Nice setup! What case is that?

Flambeau Outdoors 1711 Safe Shot™ Pistol Pack Case - 17" (flambeauoutdoors.com) I got mine from Amazon for $24

I researched what other people had used and came across this as the most economical hard-case package that was as small as possible. I was a little skeptical about the gun fitting but people had posted pictures of theirs and it's just right. 

Edited by Dave514
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Maccabeus Senior Member

Maccabeus

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Thanks for preliminary report.

If you don't mind spending as much or more on extras as you did on the gun itself, you may already know there are many aftermarket upgrades available.

(While I typically don't tinker with any of my guns, I do intend to spend some money upgrading the Sub2K.  I just didn't want to spend the money before insuring basic functionality.  So far, the time or two I've gotten to the range, I've spent all my time on pistols and making sure I'm practicing with my carry & home guns.)

M-Carbo has a ton of pricy upgrades.  I'm considering the bolt tube cover, the recoil buffer, one of the charging handles, and possibly the improved rear sight and/or the stainless feed ramp.

KEL-TEC SUB-2000 Accessories | KEL TEC SUB 2000 Gen 2 Accessories | KEL TEC SUB 2000 Mods (mcarbo.com)

Missouri Tactical has a recoil pad that will be on my Christmas list:

All Products (motacpro.com)

 

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Dave514 Senior Member

Dave514

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52 minutes ago, Maccabeus said:

Thanks for preliminary report.

If you don't mind spending as much or more on extras as you did on the gun itself, you may already know there are many aftermarket upgrades available.

(While I typically don't tinker with any of my guns, I do intend to spend some money upgrading the Sub2K.  I just didn't want to spend the money before insuring basic functionality.  So far, the time or two I've gotten to the range, I've spent all my time on pistols and making sure I'm practicing with my carry & home guns.)

M-Carbo has a ton of pricy upgrades.  I'm considering the bolt tube cover, the recoil buffer, one of the charging handles, and possibly the improved rear sight and/or the stainless feed ramp.

KEL-TEC SUB-2000 Accessories | KEL TEC SUB 2000 Gen 2 Accessories | KEL TEC SUB 2000 Mods (mcarbo.com)

Missouri Tactical has a recoil pad that will be on my Christmas list:

All Products (motacpro.com)

 

Thanks. Yeah, I've looked at the Mcarbo stuff. Especially the sight flipper thing. I'm afraid it won't fit in the case with the sight added and the cost is a consideration. The recoil pad is a definite maybe as I can shorted the length of pull one notch and probably still fit it in the case. 

 

Edit: I went ahead and ordered that recoil pad. Thanks

Edited by Dave514
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Borg warner Crew Member

Borg warner

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On 12/4/2020 at 2:42 PM, Dave514 said:

I've had the mags and green laser since March, while wading through the panic prices to get the gun. Today was the day. A gun for fun shooting and I hope the weather cooperates this weekend.

 

20201204_174151.jpg

Have you ever chronographed the velocity to see how much of a gain you get from the longer barrel?  A rough estimate is that you gain or lose 50 fps per inch of barrel so the difference between a 4 inch barrel and a 16 inch barrel would be 12 x 50= 600 fps.

That's giving you velocities even better than a 10mm when fired out of a pistol.

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Dave514 Senior Member

Dave514

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16 minutes ago, Borg warner said:

Have you ever chronographed the velocity to see how much of a gain you get from the longer barrel?  A rough estimate is that you gain or lose 50 fps per inch of barrel so the difference between a 4 inch barrel and a 16 inch barrel would be 12 x 50= 600 fps.

That's giving you velocities even better than a 10mm when fired out of a pistol.

I haven't. And don't have a chrono anymore but I'm sure it would increase the velocity some. How much is hard to tell because, looking at various rounds, the tables show wide disparities in gain. BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .40 S&W Results with significantly diminishing returns out past about 7 inches. 

I'm guessing these bulk pack Winchester flat nose FMJs are not gaining a whole lot but there are definitely better offerings and I'll have to take those into consideration when I decide what SD ammo to load up after I plink all these off. 

 

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Borg warner Crew Member

Borg warner

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1 hour ago, Dave514 said:

I haven't. And don't have a chrono anymore but I'm sure it would increase the velocity some. How much is hard to tell because, looking at various rounds, the tables show wide disparities in gain. BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .40 S&W Results with significantly diminishing returns out past about 7 inches. 

I'm guessing these bulk pack Winchester flat nose FMJs are not gaining a whole lot but there are definitely better offerings and I'll have to take those into consideration when I decide what SD ammo to load up after I plink all these off. 

 

For self defense ammo your best choice would probably be the Hornady 180 grain XTP because the XTP is tougher bullet and has the widest velocity range of any JHP.

Edited by Borg warner
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Dave514 Senior Member

Dave514

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Expanded range report. (I haven't gotten the aftermarket recoil pad yet)

Pros:

Accurate enough with fist size groups easily at 50  yards, off-hand.

Bolt mechanism under the "stock" locks up in a way that you can slap the charging handle and drop the bolt on a new mag.

The range of models you can get to fit the .40 or 9mm mags you use is nice.

Knurled threaded barrel end makes a suppressor an option.

Seemed to hold a zero after many openings and closings. 

Weighs 4 pounds and has little recoil. No much rise at all with the bolt and stock on the same plane. 

Action smoothed out more with use.

Folding it up makes it really easy to clean.

With the safety engaged the trigger just pulls to the rear with no resistance. So your not going to pull and pull on the trigger before you realize the safety is on. 

Cons:

Bolt does not lock open after the last round. Count rounds or get a click when you pull the trigger. 

Picatinny rails are part of the plastic forend, top and bottom, and I think extended use of after market sights or the laser I have on there are VERY prone to losing zero over time. The MCarbo optic mount might actually be more useful than just for the folding benefit. However, I have no plans to add an optic. 

Rear site is plastic. Seem solid but I can see it getting damaged with extended use. 

Trigger is not great. Functional but not remotely smooth. Trigger guard is plastic and since it's used as the lever to allow the gun to close...I can see why they make an after market aluminum version. 

Not comfortable to shoot. To line up with rear peep and front post you need to either have a very small face or plan on your cheek weld being the outside edge of your cheekbone and lean. Laying my cheekbone on top of the "stock" puts my eye too high. This is the only unexpected and real complaint. I don't have a good remedy. I used to complain about the 2.5 inch 'height over bore' sighting of ARs being a design problem but that extra .25 inches would come in handy here. 

 

Overall I'm pleased with it as it fits a compact and lower budget niche but I don't think you're going to see anyone running a 3 gun even with these things. The sighting system is functional but I wouldn't want to spend the day shooting rats at the dump with it. Worth the $375+tax to me but nowhere near the $650+ they are going for on GB during this panic market. 

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