Dafaq? This is supposed to be Tennessee!

[gwalchmai]

If it had been me they could have taken their pics to a proctologist and gotten a good report on my insides.

https://www.agweb.com/article/government-cameras-hidden-private-property-welcome-open-fields?fbclid=IwAR2sBp1iw-wFt1popZ58ESHYhHTHpV94mHmHmwlZX_78B-PfRF264aqQC0U

On his way to hunt on his father’s land during the first week of December 2017, Hunter Rainwaters was driving a side-by-side through the property when he noticed an oddity positioned roughly 4’ off the ground. He popped the brakes, backed toward the object and looked in surprise at a trail camera belted to a tree.

“I didn’t see any words or stickers on it, but I knew right away it wasn’t ours,” Hunter Rainwaters recalls.

Following the hunt, he drove back onto the family property and spotted a second trail camera attached to a tree with several branches removed to allow for an unimpeded lens view. Rainwaters dialed his father’s cellphone, and described the two cameras: “I was shaken up when my son called and I knew immediately it had to be the TWRA (Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency),” Rainwaters recalls.

Deeply disturbed, Rainwaters arrived home later in the afternoon and took a look at the two cameras, mulling over whether to remove the pair. Two days later, with Rainwaters in limbo on what action to take—both cameras disappeared.

Gets worse at the link...

[Historian]

Ugly.  I'm no lawyer.  But i have worked my fair share of investigations and warrants.   if you can actually say a crime is going on the exact moment and can see it, smell it, know with 100 percent certainty you're about to make an arrest you; may not need a warrant to go on the property.   Think of the example of violating a burn ban.   You can see and smell the smoke and a reasonable person knows the fire is there and it's illegal.

Hell of a difference than saying you once committed a crime (baited dove hunting) and now you can put up game cameras anytime you want.

My issue is this is a lay and wait type operation....and wrong.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Historian

[johnbt]

"The alleged surveillance may have origins partially related to 2016 hunting violations, Rainwaters says, when his son and a group of friends were ticketed for baiting doves: “I paid their fines myself in what amounted to $380 times eight people. Yeah, all this started over hunting tickets and now TWRA thinks it’s OK to set up surveillance on my land.”"

[Historian]

36 minutes ago, johnbt said:

"The alleged surveillance may have origins partially related to 2016 hunting violations, Rainwaters says, when his son and a group of friends were ticketed for baiting doves: “I paid their fines myself in what amounted to $380 times eight people. Yeah, all this started over hunting tickets and now TWRA thinks it’s OK to set up surveillance on my land.”"

Four years after the crime.

No one can say they were continuing and investigation from FOUR years ago on a dove hunting matter.

 

[ChuckUles]

Dafaq? This is supposed to be America!

 

 

fixed it for you

[tadbart]

That's fucked. I believe the best course of action, upon finding UNMARKED surveillance cameras on your own land, is not to remove it, but instead comeback with a baseball bat and beat the devil out of it, and leave it lay. Then, I'd probably lay in wait for the next few nights to see who came creeping.

[ChuckUles]

Truly amazing what all of us Americans have allowed over the years.

[johnbt]

"No one can say they were continuing and investigation from FOUR years ago on a dove hunting matter."

No one said it is a continuing investigation, just that they attracted attention to themselves by breaking the law.

Afaik, the open fields doctrine allows game wardens to go where they please on property adjacent to public land. Some state laws say that's not true, but then there's this:

"The open field doctrine comes from a supreme court case known as Hester v. United States, 265 U.S. 57 (1924). The ruling states that the 4th amendment does not apply to open areas away from one’s dwelling."

[Wyzz Kydd]

I'm a supporter of LE, but I don't have any respect for a LEO who would participate in something like this.

[willie-pete]

Or you could practice some long range shooting.

 

[26isbest]

That's pretty crappy.

[Historian]

47 minutes ago, johnbt said:

"No one can say they were continuing and investigation from FOUR years ago on a dove hunting matter."

No one said it is a continuing investigation, just that they attracted attention to themselves by breaking the law.

Afaik, the open fields doctrine allows game wardens to go where they please on property adjacent to public land. Some state laws say that's not true, but then there's this:

"The open field doctrine comes from a supreme court case known as Hester v. United States, 265 U.S. 57 (1924). The ruling states that the 4th amendment does not apply to open areas away from one’s dwelling."

Sure, i get what you are saying and you are right. I am familiar with the case and the rules regarding Fish and Game officers. 

Four years after the event?   Sure they attracted some attention when they violated the law.  It just seems odd to me they would invest that much time.

What was their reasoning is my question.

[RenoF250]

The TWRA is clearly off the rails.  They need to be disbanded.  Is their some terrible dove shortage in TN?  I doubt it.

They clearly have too many officers and too little to do if they have time to engage in this type of behavior.

[janice6]

5 hours ago, gwalchmai said:

If it had been me they could have taken their pics to a proctologist and gotten a good report on my insides.

https://www.agweb.com/article/government-cameras-hidden-private-property-welcome-open-fields?fbclid=IwAR2sBp1iw-wFt1popZ58ESHYhHTHpV94mHmHmwlZX_78B-PfRF264aqQC0U

 

Gets worse at the link...

“People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.” ― Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

“Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.”   ― Ronald Reagan

“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”  ― Edward R. Murrow

“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.”  ― Gerald R. Ford

“Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.”  ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau

“Laws are spider webs through which the big flies pass and the little ones get caught.”
― Honore de Balzac

“There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”  ― Ayn Rand

“I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves ; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”  ― Thomas Jefferson, Letters of Thomas Jefferson

"Independence is my happiness, the world is my country and my religion is to do good.”
― Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

[Gunboat1]

They should destroy every unauthorized game camera they find on their private property.  They should actively search for such, weekly.  They should consider staking out the area a few nights to try and catch the trespassers on night vision video.   They should shout this to the rooftops in Tennessee.  Make this bureaucratic overreach painful, embarrassing and expensive and it will stop.

[janice6]

Just now, Gunboat1 said:

They should destroy every unauthorized game camera they find on their private property.  They should actively search for such, weekly.  They should consider staking out the area a few nights to try and catch the trespassers on night vision video.   They should shout this to the rooftops in Tennessee.  Make this bureaucratic overreach painful, embarrassing and expensive and it will stop.

Government will do anything and everything, unless people make them stop!

[janice6]

3 hours ago, willie-pete said:

Or you could practice some long range shooting.

 

Anything from spray painted lenses to high velocity projectiles.  Nothing less.

[janice6]

5 hours ago, Historian said:

Ugly.  I'm no lawyer.  But i have worked my fair share of investigations and warrants.   if you can actually say a crime is going on the exact moment and can see it, smell it, know with 100 percent certainty you're about to make an arrest you; may not need a warrant to go on the property.   Think of the example of violating a burn ban.   You can see and smell the smoke and a reasonable person knows the fire is there and it's illegal.

Hell of a difference than saying you once committed a crime (baited dove hunting) and now you can put up game cameras anytime you want.

My issue is this is a lay and wait type operation....and wrong.

This is the "I will find you the crime", argument.

[Historian]

20 minutes ago, janice6 said:

This is the "I will find you the crime", argument.

Right.  

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Historian

[Silentpoet]

What caliber is best for an unconstitutionally placed camera?

[johnbt]

"What was their reasoning is my question."

 

Having worked for the state government here for many years, there are probably at least a few stupid reasons. One of defendants smiled at them when the tickets were paid; they need someplace to train new employees and the property has good parking, is a short walk in, and they have to drive past a good BBQ place on the way back to the office. 

[Historian]

7 minutes ago, johnbt said:

"What was their reasoning is my question."

 

Having worked for the state government here for many years, there are probably at least a few stupid reasons. One of defendants smiled at them when the tickets were paid; they need someplace to train new employees and the property has good parking, is a short walk in, and they have to drive past a good BBQ place on the way back to the office. 

Ok, i was going to say something.  Since i have worked for the feds, state and local. 

And i have...made it a point to stop at the good BBQ place on the way back. 

[RenoF250]

3 hours ago, Gunboat1 said:

They should destroy every unauthorized game camera they find on their private property.  They should actively search for such, weekly.  They should consider staking out the area a few nights to try and catch the trespassers on night vision video.   They should shout this to the rooftops in Tennessee.  Make this bureaucratic overreach painful, embarrassing and expensive and it will stop.

 

I wonder what would happen if they called the local police/sheriff and reported the trespassers and request they be charged.  The property is marked and fenced.

[holyjohnson]

if the Cameras are not marked Property of the State or Federal Agencies it is Impossible for him to know he was Obstructing anything.

Intent is still a thing.

[Historian]

15 hours ago, RenoF250 said:

 

I wonder what would happen if they called the local police/sheriff and reported the trespassers and request they be charged.  The property is marked and fenced.

Not a lot.   The supreme court case says your personal privacy is limited to your immediate home and area.   Large open fields...don't count. 

The open-fields doctrine (also open-field doctrine or open-fields rule), in the U.S. law of criminal procedure, is the legal doctrine that a "warrantless search of the area outside a property owner's curtilage" does not violate the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution. However, "unless there is some other legal basis for the search," such a search "must exclude the home and any adjoining land (such as a yard) that is within an enclosure or otherwise protected from public scrutiny."^[1]