Investing in good gear, and trusting it

[TXUSMC]

I have a friend who recently went through license to carry training in our state. He did this as part of becoming a member of his church security team. I congratulated him on making the decision to do so. He asked some typical questions, and I tried to point him in the right direction. I told him that he needed not only a reliable firearm, but a good holster to retain the pistol and a good belt that would properly support the pistol and holster.

I know my friend... he's a cheap b*st*rd. He will buy a soft nylon holster, and will use the same thin leather belt he's been wearing to church for years. Even worse, he will probably not even chamber a round in the weapon until he draws it, because he's afraid that it might "go off accidentally".

I'm willing to bet that many of these newly minted gun owners who are emptying the shelves are clones of my friend. Like him, they are not ready to take gun ownership seriously. And because they are not, they are more dangerous than someone who is not armed. Some of these folks worry me more than the bad guys.

Buy quality equipment. Train with it. Trust in it. Wear it with confidence. Go to the range with a plan to become more proficient each time. Get more training. Read books written by guys like Mas Ayoob. 

I suspect the rest of you have had experiences like mine. Hope you're having more success.

Edited August 12, 2020 by TXUSMC
spelling

[Batesmotel]

Uncle Mikes and the like must be doing great right now. 

[holyjohnson]

2 hours ago, TXUSMC said:

I have a friend who recently went through license to carry training in our state. He did this as part of becoming a member of his church security team. I congratulated him on making the decision to do so. He asked some typical questions, and I tried to point him in the right direction. I told him that he needed not only a reliable firearm, but a good holster to retain the pistol and a good belt that would properly support the pistol and holster.

I know my friend... he's a cheap b*st*rd. He will buy a soft nylon holster, and will use the same thin leather belt he's been wearing to church for years. Even worse, he will probably not even chamber a round in the weapon until he draws it, because he's afraid that it might "go off accidentally".

I'm willing to bet that many of these newly minted gun owners who are emptying the shelves are clones of my friend. Like him, they are not ready to take gun ownership seriously. And because they are not, they are more dangerous than someone who is not armed. Some of these folks worry me more than the bad guys.

Buy quality equipment. Train with it. Trust in it. Wear it with confidence. Go to the range with a plan to become more proficient each time. Get more training. Read books written by guys like Mas Ayoob. 

I suspect the rest of you have had experiences like mine. Hope you're having more success.

might i suggest Wilderness tactical for a Gun Belt.

they have a few to choose from and are Excellently Priced, inform him they also help with Back Support if he gets the 5 Stitch and stiffener and they are comfortable.

and a simple Leather 'Belt slide' Holster for whatever he should carry is not much more then a cheap Uncle Mike`s and last a lot longer.

i`d recommend a Revolver if he is afraid 'Automatic' means it shoots all by itself....

i have had a few people new to guns with the same mentality and have taken some time to teach them and try and enlighten them.

Just curious but does the Church he will be Detailing in cover Insurance should he be sued for his Efforts?

[TXUSMC]

Not sure if any insurance if offered, holyjohnson. It is a Catholic church, which really shocked me that it would allow an armed security team, given the extremely liberal and anti-gun positions of the Catholic Church in general (full disclosure: I am a "retired" Catholic). My friend advised me that the pastor himself was going to go through the license to carry training as well, which I thought was nice but inviting termination by the archbishop.

[willie-pete]

Show him this story.

Warning graphic images of a guy with 1 extra hole in his butt.

 

https://concealednation.org/2016/02/when-bad-holsters-turn-worse-this-guy-took-one-right-in-the-a-heres-why-a-proper-holster-is-essential/

 

I own a lot of holsters, but NO NYLON ONES.

[janice6]

7 hours ago, willie-pete said:

Show him this story.

Warning graphic images of a guy with 1 extra hole in his butt.

 

https://concealednation.org/2016/02/when-bad-holsters-turn-worse-this-guy-took-one-right-in-the-a-heres-why-a-proper-holster-is-essential/

 

I own a lot of holsters, but NO NYLON ONES.

 My gun belt is the best and my holster   custom to the gun.   Everything else is my problem.

[windowasher]

Take your friend out weekly and educate/mentor him the importance of the task he is undertaking.  How's he supposed to know anything unless we teach him?

[Spats McGee]

With so many new gun owners out there, we (gun owners) really need to try to be good ambassadors, IMHO.  That includes not only range time, but (as @windowasher mentions), mentoring on the importance of quality gear.  I've gotten a few calls from new gun owers who know I carry, and I've tried to steer them right.

[LostinTexas]

On 8/11/2020 at 10:18 PM, TXUSMC said:

I have a friend who recently went through license to carry training in our state. He did this as part of becoming a member of his church security team. I congratulated him on making the decision to do so. He asked some typical questions, and I tried to point him in the right direction. I told him that he needed not only a reliable firearm, but a good holster to retain the pistol and a good belt that would properly support the pistol and holster.

I know my friend... he's a cheap b*st*rd. He will buy a soft nylon holster, and will use the same thin leather belt he's been wearing to church for years. Even worse, he will probably not even chamber a round in the weapon until he draws it, because he's afraid that it might "go off accidentally".

I'm willing to bet that many of these newly minted gun owners who are emptying the shelves are clones of my friend. Like him, they are not ready to take gun ownership seriously. And because they are not, they are more dangerous than someone who is not armed. Some of these folks worry me more than the bad guys.

Buy quality equipment. Train with it. Trust in it. Wear it with confidence. Go to the range with a plan to become more proficient each time. Get more training. Read books written by guys like Mas Ayoob. 

I suspect the rest of you have had experiences like mine. Hope you're having more success.

Had me right up to "Read books written by guys lake Mas Ayoob". I don't know who this is and really don't care. I have looked for some presentations and have only found one half baked UTube something. I read a lot of "Statements" and wonder. Context and the real statement are everything though. No matter the author, you can't substitute trigger time and quality training with a book.

You're right, the guy, especially for this type duty, needs a lot of training and trigger time. We have a guy that teaches beginner classes at our club. He is a church security guy, and I have no idea of his background. He does teach a very good basic class, and can have you shooting very well if you will listen. That is where my praise ends. A great guy, he'll do just about anything for anyone, and he's real proud of himself. I doubt the man has ever tripped a trigger under duress, and good for him, but not so much for people who take his word to heart.

His stories and philosophy are a little dangerous, even though he's a very good shooting instructor. There is a world of difference between shooting targets and an altercation.

Try to get your friend some quality trigger time and learn to shoot under stress. You will never be able to duplicate the stress level of a two way shooting range, but every little bit can help.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by LostinTexas

[willie-pete]

42 minutes ago, LostinTexas said:

Had me right up to "Read books written by guys lake Mas Ayoob". I don't know who this is and really don't care. 

 

Former police officer, writer (  In The Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection and others ), expert witness in court re: SD shootings, shooting instructor, director of the Lethal Force Institute.

[LostinTexas]

1 hour ago, willie-pete said:

Former police officer, writer (  In The Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection and others ), expert witness in court re: SD shootings, shooting instructor, director of the Lethal Force Institute.

He may be legit, and I've read a lot of "credentials", and they seem to be rather fluid, but in today's environment, most Experts are only expert in convincing people they are experts.

You still aren't going to learn to defend yourself in a book.

[willie-pete]

2 hours ago, LostinTexas said:

He may be legit, and I've read a lot of "credentials", and they seem to be rather fluid, but in today's environment, most Experts are only expert in convincing people they are experts.

You still aren't going to learn to defend yourself in a book.

Well, all I can say for sure is that he is a perfect gentleman and that he can shoot. He lives in FL and has shot at GSSF matches in central FL; some at my home club. I have RO'd his group a number of times now, both in Orlando and New Smyrna Beach.

[Spats McGee]

4 hours ago, LostinTexas said:

...You still aren't going to learn to defend yourself in a book.

And you aren't going to learn the general principles of SD law by going to the range.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Spats McGee

[LostinTexas]

4 hours ago, Spats McGee said:

And you aren't going to learn the general principles of SD law by going to the range.

Well, that may not be as accurate as you believe. Every state has different laws. In many cases, wildly different. You won't learn SD  law from someone writing a book in Texas if you live in NY. Put most of our laws in practice there, and you go to jail. Put most of our laws and court findings over the years in practice, in most places and you will be in a bind.

Same for others. I read all kinds of "Requirements" in here and am astonished at the restrictions so many have.

So, in a nutshell, you are pretty correct unless your range has a CCL instructor who is knowledgeable and willing to share. However, a pretty fair amount of local SWAG can be gleaned from a friendly range. More so than a lot of books. We have a multitude of members who are active and retired LEO from a wide variety of agencies. I realize that everyone and everywhere don't share that luxury.

Books are good, and necessary, but be mindful of what you are reading.

[Spats McGee]

18 hours ago, LostinTexas said:

Well, that may not be as accurate as you believe. Every state has different laws. In many cases, wildly different. You won't learn SD  law from someone writing a book in Texas if you live in NY. Put most of our laws in practice there, and you go to jail. Put most of our laws and court findings over the years in practice, in most places and you will be in a bind.

Same for others. I read all kinds of "Requirements" in here and am astonished at the restrictions so many have.

So, in a nutshell, you are pretty correct unless your range has a CCL instructor who is knowledgeable and willing to share. However, a pretty fair amount of local SWAG can be gleaned from a friendly range. More so than a lot of books. We have a multitude of members who are active and retired LEO from a wide variety of agencies. I realize that everyone and everywhere don't share that luxury.

Books are good, and necessary, but be mindful of what you are reading.

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment.  When I said "going to the range," I just meant "going to the range," as in "going shooting at the range."  I didn't say anything about "taking a class that involves also going to the range."   

Yes, every state has different laws.  I'm pretty well familiar with them.  The general principles of SD law are pretty consistent across the nation, with nuances or details that vary.  I'd hardly call them 'wildly different.' 

[Will Beararms]

I still have some nylon holsters from the 1990’s back when I first started out. Thank God this never happened.