What Iran Looked Like In The 1960s And 1970s, Before The Islamic Revolution

[pipedreams]

 

https://www.wiseyoungman.com/beforeislam.html

Edited January 11, 2020 by pipedreams

[janice6]

8 hours ago, pipedreams said:

 

https://www.wiseyoungman.com/beforeislam.html

This only demonstrates just how fleeting freedom and liberty can be.  Once lost it takes  blood to regain, if you are willing to pay the price.

The Iranian people remember!

[Ricordo]

It used to be a simpler world when it was a question of things being reduced to its lowest common denominator of imports and exports.

Then human sacrifices were banned...

[Dric902]

When they had the Shah, Iran was western. They were corrupt, but they were western

[Ricordo]

I've being racking my head trying to come up with a country that is free of corruption. As far as degrees go--- heck, even one with a snippet!

San Marino? Andorra? Anybody been to Vaduz, Liechtenstein lately?

Perhaps in an island in the South Pacific with about 100 inhabitants. Maybe that's pushing it. How 'bout 50?

[Dric902]

I’ve been around for a while. Seen a lot of governments South Korea is very free, and very corrupt

societal history is important, dropping freedom on the heads can lead to decades of corruption.

Western civilization has been free to varying degrees for centuries. 
 

The United States republic is the best and most enduring if not messed with

John Adams famously said “Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
 

.

[Fnfalman]

Not to give any credit to the Iranian islamists but the Shah of Iran was one F’ed up mofo. Pretty city aside, there was a big ass reason for the uprising. 
 

 

[janice6]

6 hours ago, Ricordo said:

I've being racking my head trying to come up with a country that is free of corruption. As far as degrees go--- heck, even one with a snippet!

San Marino? Andorra? Anybody been to Vaduz, Liechtenstein lately?

Perhaps in an island in the South Pacific with about 100 inhabitants. Maybe that's pushing it. How 'bout 50?

It's only a matter of degree.

[Ricordo]

1 hour ago, janice6 said:

It's only a matter of degree.

Definitely. Then people come with phrases like "from the pan to the fire", "how the heck did we get here", and my personal favorite..."you asked for it".

[pipedreams]

4 hours ago, Fnfalman said:

Not to give any credit to the Iranian islamists but the Shah of Iran was one F’ed up mofo. Pretty city aside, there was a big ass reason for the uprising. 
 

Your right but it seems like in that part of the world brutal power is the only thing that works.  Look at Iraq, ever since Sadam was taken out it has been a mess.  Carter can get credit for getting rid of the Shah if that was a good thing.

[willie-pete]

44 minutes ago, pipedreams said:

Your right but it seems like in that part of the world brutal power is the only thing that works.  Look at Iraq, ever since Sadam was taken out it has been a mess.  Carter can get credit for getting rid of the Shah if that was a good thing.

Doesn't seem so much now.

[Fnfalman]

1 hour ago, pipedreams said:

Your right but it seems like in that part of the world brutal power is the only thing that works.  Look at Iraq, ever since Sadam was taken out it has been a mess.  Carter can get credit for getting rid of the Shah if that was a good thing.

Carter should have used the excuse of the attached US Embassy and invade then put a US friendly figurehead in the Shah’s place. Though historically speaking, the USA didn’t do a good job with putting in or supporting figureheads.  

[janice6]

4 hours ago, pipedreams said:

Your right but it seems like in that part of the world brutal power is the only thing that works.  Look at Iraq, ever since Sadam was taken out it has been a mess.  Carter can get credit for getting rid of the Shah if that was a good thing.

The ME  prior and present culture seems to respect violent force more than compassion.  It seems that the people have little to nothing, and their only satisfaction comes from being able to hurt others.

You see this when even the lowliest among them have the right to abuse their women, since they aren't strong enough to harm their peers. 

Every man has to be able to hurt those below him in the pecking order.  At the top is the guy strong enough to hurt everyone else.  They are ruled by force in every way.  The only thing they respect is an ability to harm other.

Look at their rules/laws for behavior.  They exhibit the same barbarity as their religion.  The fact that their religion is also their legal system is the basis for cruelty, in that it even praises violence and harm to those they see as different from them.

When you have nothing and no respect from others, they take solace in their women being less than men in their elections also.

This is a barbaric area with little to nothing to offer the modern world.  And, they are happy for it!

Edited January 12, 2020 by janice6

[janice6]

9 hours ago, Dric902 said:

I’ve been around for a while. Seen a lot of governments South Korea is very free, and very corrupt

societal history is important, dropping freedom on the heads can lead to decades of corruption.

Western civilization has been free to varying degrees for centuries. 
 

The United States republic is the best and most enduring if not messed with

John Adams famously said “Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
 

I

.

We see that every day in the press when peoples from the ME are put into a modern society, and they are hard pressed to understand the need for compassion and self control. 

Cultures as far apart as the Middle East and the West, seem at best to be incompatible, and at worst hardened enemies.

It emphasizes just how existing national cultures formed nations.  And presently we see in both the USA and Europe, just how incompatible these cultures are when placed within one nation.

Edited January 12, 2020 by janice6

[Dric902]

18 minutes ago, janice6 said:

We see that every day in the press when peoples from the ME are put into a modern society, and they are hard pressed to understand the need for compassion and self control. 

Cultures as far apart as the Middle East and the West, seem at best to be incompatible, and at worst hardened enemies.

It emphasizes just how existing national cultures formed nations.  And presently we see in both the USA and Europe, just how incompatible these cultures are when placed within one nation.

It’s true,

if you don’t have a social history of freedom and the individuality and responsibility that is required.

The personal greed and self interest can ruin it. And often does whenever we “free” another nation. Japan had a hard time with the transition. Afghanistan/Iraq is not even close

.

[janice6]

2 hours ago, Dric902 said:

It’s true,

if you don’t have a social history of freedom and the individuality and responsibility that is required.

The personal greed and self interest can ruin it. And often does whenever we “free” another nation. Japan had a hard time with the transition. Afghanistan/Iraq is not even close

.

The defining moment for me was when a reporter interviewed locals when the US forces first got into Iraq, or Afghanistan.  The reporter said, "the West is bringing you freedom!".

and the local's response was a vehement, "We don't want freedom!".

I'll never forget that.  Sometimes we do cause more problems than we solve.

I think the honest statement from the reporter would have been,  "We are going to change your leader!".  And it might have made more sense to the people there.

[Dric902]

8 minutes ago, janice6 said:

The defining moment for me was when a reporter interviewed locals when the US forces first got into Iraq, or Afghanistan.  The reporter said, "the West is bringing you freedom!".

and the local's response was a vehement, "We don't want freedom!".

I'll never forget that.  Sometimes we do cause more problems than we solve.

I think the honest statement from the reporter would have been,  "We are going to change your leader!".  And it might have made more sense to the people there.

They have followed a string leader their whole life. They don’t know any different

.

[Rellik]

1 hour ago, janice6 said:

The ME  prior and present culture seems to respect violent force more than compassion.  It seems that the people have little to nothing, and their only satisfaction comes from being able to hurt others.

You see this when even the lowliest among them have the right to abuse their women, since they aren't strong enough to harm their peers. 

Every man has to be able to hurt those below him in the pecking order.  At the top is the guy strong enough to hurt everyone else.  They are ruled by force in every way.  The only thing they respect is an ability to harm other.

Look at their rules/laws for behavior.  They exhibit the same barbarity as their religion.  The fact that their religion is also their legal system is the basis for cruelty, in that it even praises violence and harm to those they see as different from them.

When you have nothing and no respect from others, they take solace in their women being less than men in their elections also.

This is a barbaric area with little to nothing to offer the modern world.  And, they are happy for it!

Need that button that says:  I don't like what you say.  But it is the truth.  

[Dric902]

52 minutes ago, Rellik said:

Need that button that says:  I don't like what you say.  But it is the truth.  

Tribalism also has a lot of “payback” and grudges involved.

we aren’t ‘supposed’ to have that, and we do, but not on the same level as much of the ME.

.

[janice6]

2 hours ago, Dric902 said:

Tribalism also has a lot of “payback” and grudges involved.

we aren’t ‘supposed’ to have that, and we do, but not on the same level as much of the ME.

.

It primarily seems to manifest itself in our ghettos and concentrations of new members in our society.  It is brought with them in many cases.

Money seems to produce it also.

[Dric902]

5 minutes ago, janice6 said:

It primarily seems to manifest itself in our ghettos and concentrations of new members in our society.  It is brought with them in many cases.

Money seems to produce it also.

The gang mentality is very close to tribalism

.

[Ricordo]

It is very easily forgotten that the conditions that lead to regime change are pre-existent. Those who seek power/authority need only exploit the circumstances that those conditions offer. 

Or, "if it ain't there before, you can't make it after".

[janice6]

11 hours ago, Ricordo said:

It is very easily forgotten that the conditions that lead to regime change are pre-existent. Those who seek power/authority need only exploit the circumstances that those conditions offer. 

Or, "if it ain't there before, you can't make it after".

It's very much like the two political parties here.  Always lurking for the advantage to exploit to rule.

[PPQer]

I don't think corruption is a suitable justification for tyranny.  Just because a free nation is corrupt, is no reason to move tyrannical socialists in and take away freedom. 

I don't feel the Bern.

[janice6]

Bernie's task is to make lies sound good enough that the ignorant will believe them.  It's his sole job!