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About This Club

This is a club dedicated to the subtle art and exact science of ammunition loading and reloading. We have made this are a club, rather than just a forum, so that the reloading area could have more than one forum, if needed, its own photo gallery, its own Blog area and more. This is an open club and anyone who likes can join.
  1. What's new in this club
  2. Noticeably increased recoil. I had some 7.9 Mauser that were ok but one box was like being hit with a sledgehammer. Problems above were noticeable on the brass but my first indication that something was wrong was the recoil.
  3. A thread all about pressure signs and how to read them. This is a list for starters: 1. Case bulging excessively. (This is most often at an unsupported part of the case base.) 2. Case cracks along its side. (May mean excess pressure, but may mean brittle, defective, draw mark scored, or worn out brass.) 3. Case head expansion. (A.k.a., CHE. It most often means pressure too high for the lot of brass used, but an isolated example from a lot may mean nothing, as brass is often imprecise, so CHE can occur at pressures that differ by 2:1 within a brass lot.) 4. Case head separation. (May mean high pressure, but may mean excess headspace or worn out brass.) 5. Case splits in body in fewer than 10 reloads. Back powder charge down at least 2%; 5% if in the first two or three reloads. (May also be due to excess headspace, a once-fired case from another gun that was highly stretched at first firing (use paperclip probe to feel for pressure ring inside case and reject any where you can feel one), or is less commonly due ammonia vapor exposure or to a brass defect in an individual case.) 6. Case mouth split in fewer than 6 reloads. (May mean high pressure or ammonia vapor exposure, but more often simply means case needed neck annealing.) 7. Case mouth split in fewer than 4 reloads (May mean high pressure or ammonia vapor exposure, but more often means case got too hot during annealing.) 8. Case pressure ring expansion (A.k.a., PRE; not much more reliable than case head expansion but may mean pressure is excessive for the particular piece of brass or lot of brass it occurs with. It can, for example, happen with Federal commercial brass, but not with Lapua brass or with military brass at the same pressure.) 9. Case primer pockets getting loose in five reloads or fewer. (This is a version of CHE, but may be apparent earlier in pressure. Lowering charge, as in the introductory paragraph, may fix it. However, if the load seems reasonable or is an old standard, same as in 3 and 8, switching make of brass can fix it.) 10. Case stretching excessively. (This is usually visible as pressure ring area stretching which may be due to excess pressure or to excess headspace. Use a bent paperclip or other probe to feel for thinning at the pressure ring. In rear bolt lug guns, the whole case may lengthen before resizing and be impossible to rechamber without sizing.) 11. Case, extractor or ejector marks on head, especially after increasing powder charge to next higher increment. (Most common in semi-auto rifles, but can happen with any extractor and ejector. May be due to high pressure, bad timing in a semi-auto action, or may be due to an improperly fit extractor standing proud on the bolt face.) 12. Case, won’t fit back into chamber after firing. (May mean high pressure, but can also result from a chamber cut at an angle off the bore axis or by an out-of square bolt face. Test for the latter two possibilities by noting head stamp orientation at firing. If case fits back in at that same orientation but no other, then one of these two conditions obtain.) 13. Gas leak. (See Primer Leaking, below.) 14. Groups start to open up at or beyond a published maximum load. 15. Hard bolt lift. (This often indicates excess pressure, but can also result from only one bolt lug making contact until peak pressure is reached (lugs need lapping).) 16. Incipient case head separation (Starting or partial case head separation or signs of it. Can also be a problem with excess headspace.) 17. Increase in powder charge achieves unexpected velocity. (Average velocity will tend to increase by the same number of feet per second per grain of additional powder over the normal operating pressure range. If your next charge increment fails to produce the expected additional velocity or produces too much additional velocity, pressure may be high. Poor grouping usually accompanies this symptom. It is also caused at reasonable pressures by uneven bolt lug contact (lugs need lapping), in which case still further charge increments go back to producing orderly velocity increases and grouping improves. Suspect this last situation if the charge at which the velocity anomaly occurs is in the middle of a published load range. Otherwise, back the charge off 5% from where the issue started.) 18. Primer blown loose. (Primer falls out when gun is opened; same as loose primer pocket, #9, above.) 19. Primer cratering. (May mean high pressure, or it may mean a worn firing pin or firing pin tunnel, or may mean you have a new production Remington bolt with chamfered firing pin tunnel.) 20. Primer flattening. (May mean high pressure, or may mean long headspace; some loads always make flat primers; softer primer cups (Federal) flatten more easily than harder ones (CCI), so it may mean nothing at all.) 21. Primer mushrooming; i.e., primer cup fills out radius at primer pocket perimeter. (May mean high pressure, or may mean excess headspace.) 22. Primer piercing. (May mean high pressure or may mean incorrect firing pin protrusion or incorrect firing pin nose shape.) 23. Primer leaking gas around edges of primer pocket. (May mean high pressure, may mean loose primer pocket in case, may mean damaged primer was inserted, may mean excessive chamber headspace.) 24. Case, short life - back load off at least 2% (under 10 reloads in non-self-loaders, or under 5 loads total in self-loaders before pressure ring is detected with paperclip probe.) 25. Case, sticky or hard extraction. (Especially in revolvers, this is a positive sign to knock the powder charge down at least 5%. In rifles also look for chamber ringing.) 26. Case, torn or bent rim. (Caused by hard extraction, see #24 & #25, above). 27. Case, primer pocket expanded. (A.k.a., PPE; this is the same, in principle, as #9 above, but can be made apparent by measuring with gauges before primers actually are loose. It is a somewhat more sensitive measure than O.D. CHE measurements.) 28. Primer loose or falls out when opening the action or after seating. (See #9 & #27, above). 29. Case, increase in required trimming frequency. (This refers to a sudden increase in case length growth per load cycle. It is actually a less acute version of #10. It can be caused by excess pressure, but can also be a sign of increasing head space due to some other problem. It is especially common as a pressure sign in lever action guns because the greater span from bolt face to rear lug allows more steel stretch when pressure gets excessive.) 30. Case, increase in apparent headspace. (This means the cases are coming out longer, including between the casehead and shoulder. It can mean bolt lug setback, which is usually an extreme pressure sign. It can also mean a loose barrel or an improperly set up Savage barrel. Whatever the cause, the gun should go straight to the gunsmith for inspection.) 31. Gas or Flame Cutting of revolver top strap. (Can also be due to excessive barrel/cylinder gap that needs correction.) 32. Gas or Flame cutting of rifle bolt face by gas leaks around primer pocket or at bolt face perimeter. (Can also be result of occasional leaks from normal rounds firing, as is observed in many military gun bolts.) 33. Velocity higher than manual maximum load velocity reported for same powder charge and barrel length. (May mean excess pressure or a “fast” barrel, but often is actually a chronograph error due to screens being too close to the muzzle blast, bad lighting conditions (watch for ground reflection), or a low battery. In one instance, though, a fellow loading a .243 Win load in the Speer manual and still one grain below the manual maximum was getting velocity readings 200 fps higher than the manual claimed for the higher maximum load. His single-shot action was also popping open at every shot. With QuickLOAD, we were able to calculate he had about 77,000 psi.) 34. Flash hole diameter growing. (This is a more sensitive version of case head expansion. See #3, #9, and #27, above. It can be checked with pin gauges in the form of numbered drill bits or by special gauge.)
  4. Based on what you have, Power Pistol any day for 10 mm. Loads depend on bullet shape / form / material. I'd use Xtreme Penetrators. They need your own upload ladder. I base my max loads on pressure signs mainly on the primer cups and cases, and based on my chrono readings and a pressure calculations excel file. 2nd one is good, 3rd one is borderline and too much in my book, 4th is way too much pressure.
  5. I’ve used Winchester 231 with some lighter loads; Longshot was good for more powerful loads. I think hodgdons load data is on the conservative side. I did put a KKM barrel in it to help with brass life.
  6. Looking for hunting loads for deer on the light side, and maybe something heavier (elk) on the bigger side. The power crossover point seems to be around 165gr and less with Power Pistol, and the heavier 180gr with Blue Dot. I have PP, BD, 2400, and can get LongShot. Shot from a stock G20.
  7. I’m really trying to find RL22. It’s for a 416 Rigby pushing REAL LONG Barnes 400 grain TSX bullets. For normal 400s I use IMR 4831 but these seat so far down Barns lists RL22 or N560 but a lot of people don’t like these bullets with the N560. They say 22 is more consistent and accurate. But 560 will be my second choice if I can’t find 22. I guess IMR 4831 is more bulky. Mostly a range toy now so it’s not as important as if I were hunting. It plays hell with the old style cork bowling balls with the resin shell. I put them in the freezer for a week first. I let my friends chip away at them with other guns then the Rigby makes them just explode.
  8. When you place orders online for powder or primers, the sellers make you pay for the HAZMAT fee. That's usually between 20 to 30 bucks. So if you get a chance, order more at once. Ammo Seek is a good place to find things being in stock: https://ammoseek.com/ Powder Valley, Midsouth, Natchez, Brownell's and MidwayUSA are good sellers: https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ https://outdoors.natchezss.com/ https://www.brownells.com/ https://www.midwayusa.com/ That being said, even many powders are sold out due to the POS in the WH, incl Reloader 22. Only place I could find some is on GunBroker. Going price seem to be 60 to 70 bucks for a pound, plus shipping and HAZMAT. https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=alliant Reloader 22&Sort=13 If that's too expensive, I'd look for a powder with similar burn rate, for example VihtaVuori N560 or VihtaVuori N165 Here a list of most powders by burn rate: https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/burnratecolor.pdf
  9. Where to look? I’m new to buying powder online. The search engines seem to not be allowing me to find anything. What are some good sites to hit. I’m specifically looking for Reloader 22. I understand it is probably out of stock everywhere but I want to know where to check. Thanks.
  10. Anvils can be reused, with less reliability. Here common primer mixures:
  11. How about fake or decorative primers? Cup but no priming compound or anvil. I decapped these from m some 375 H&H rounds that had been used in some movie.
  12. I’m sure many here remember .guv buying up all the 40 ammo a few short years ago. Ammo companies don’t need a crystal ball to see what demand has been and will continue to be. With the ban on Russian ammo that will simply put more pressure on the market.
  13. I bet Gov has some form of control mechanisms on ammo production. While a bunch of folks want to hoard, I don't see much ammo coming to the LGS. And all primers go into ammo production these days. I wonder if Gov is stocking up for 4 years straight every time a ******* Dem gets to move into the WH.
  14. I just read that Vista is “temporarily “ suspending primer orders. Looks like those CCI and Federal small pistol primers won’t be available anytime soon. I’ve been told there are plenty of primers available in Canada but it’s illegal to import them. There seems to be no shortage of shortages.
  15. I highly doubt it. If at all, we may see a better situation in 2023, only if the GOP won some control back.
  16. Hoarder. 😂. I have more LP than SP. I’ve seen some primers being sold 100 or 200 at a time with prices “only” 3 times normal. But that’s a start. I hope they get plentiful again before the midterm virus shuts the country down again.
  17. I just stopped shooting metallic for the next year and a half. Sad. I didn't have my primers organized as well as I thought. Had lots of LPP and a little over 1k SPP. I still have a line on shotshells so I am staying up on my scattergun skills.
  18. And that's the added issue. The boat tail bullets are much longer, hence less case capacity for powder at same OAL, hence a lot of compression. I pulled up a couple threads and others said it will be a tight fit.
  19. H&H I went ahead with Speer’s published data. I found the same load in three other places including Kenn Water’s Pet Loads Vol II from 1978. Just never loaded many compressed loads but I know they are very common.
  20. What caliber exactly? .375 Ruger .375 Remington Ultra Magnum .375 Holland & Holland Magnum What bullet exactly? - Speer .375 270 gr Boat tail (Bullet Length 1.300in. / 33.02mm) - Speer .375 270 gr Hot-Cor (Bullet Length 1.044in. / 26.52mm) - Speer .375 270 gr Grand Slam (Bullet Length 1.250in. / 31.75mm) The max difference in length is 6.5mm. That is a lot! If you try to seat bullets with different lengths and / or base form to the same OAL, you will end up with different levels of compression, up to the point of unsafe loads. PS: if you are going to underload, watch out for squibs. Blowing up your chamber or barrel with a larger caliber often comes with injury to hands and face.
  21. I’m loading Speer .375 270 GR. The Speer manual says 80 grains of IMR 4831 as a starting load and 82 grains as a Max with 82 grains being a compressed load. But even 80 grains will be a compressed load. I don’t know if I can even compress 82 grains enough to seat the bullet. I’ve never been a fan of compressed loads. I can fit about 72 grains of 4831 comfortably without compression. I can find no data on a load this light with these components. Is there a problem with a range (non-hunting) load this light. Pressure spike or over pressure possibilities? I have always just loaded by the book. Home brew ammo is not my thing so this is new territory. But I’m not too comfortable with this much compression. The case is really full at 80 grains. Can I safely under load by 10%? I think I remember being told to never go under published starting loads. Thanks.
  22. Primers in vacuums and primer tubes in the ceiling are 2 mistakes I managed to avoid. So far.
  23. I’ll never suck a lost primer up a regular household vacuum again. Scared the dog bad. Shop vac is much better.
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